Curse

Theus · May 21, 2007, 02:17 PM // 14:17

The only problem that needs fixing in Hardmode is the fact that barely any other players actually play it.Which can be a pain at times,having to complete Missions like Aurora's Glade,where the player has to not only Run the Crystals,but bark orders at the Hero AI.

freekedoutfish · May 21, 2007, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

The only problem that needs fixing in Hardmode is the fact that barely any other players actually play it.Which can be a pain at times,having to complete Missions like Aurora's Glade,where the player has to not only Run the Crystals,but bark orders at the Hero AI.

In a weird way, I like that few people do HM. It means the guardian titles will be rare for a few months yet. Im going for vanguisher in cantha at the minute because I gave up on forming PUGs.

Its more a vanity thing to show off the title, and it helps you make gold VERY easily.

Buzzer · May 21, 2007, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

Has anyone ever beat Eternal Grove with just heroes and henchmen? All of the threads in Canthan Explorers league talk about 2 man or more team builds but nothing where 1 person alone (like me (all my friends think gw is dead now

)) can beat it.

I can't react fast enough to both sides and the henchman flag interface is simply not enough.

Masters is very doable in easy mode. Not sure about hard, I'll have to give it a try.

For the second part, send 5 or 6 henchmen to one of the gates and send a MM and the juggernauts to defend the other. It's much easier if you're a monk; otherwise you might have to manually heal the singers a bit.

glountz · May 21, 2007, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

I addressed these in the previous post. I don't want to have to join a big pve alliance just to get titles.

So you are basically saying that Anet should decrease the HM difficulty because you don't have the will, the time, or the patience to find a guild which have the same goals than you?
Are you implying that Anet should rework their system just because you're lazy?
That Anet should adapt to you instead of you adapting to Anet's game?
Sorry I can't follow you here.
HM is largely doable. Additionally, it forces you to think your builds. In PVE!
HM is fine.

Mylon · May 21, 2007, 04:49 PM // 16:49

My problem with hard mode is there's so many skills out there to abuse it and not enough hero slots to use those.

I would like to have a churning earth ele (KD all of those fast moving mobs!), a SS/empathy/diversion necro, a MM, a monk hero with ZB, infuse, maybe a few other skills (they don't seem to use Prot spirit appropriately), a shelter Rt, an interurpt ranger/support paragon, and maybe a dervish and warrior or some other use for the last slot.

Instead I'm stuck with henchies with useless elites (Go Aidan with your uber stance that you.. End prematurely with an attack skill), incomplete bars, and often obvious flaws like Healing Touch. I'm looking at you, Mhenlo.

Spazzer · May 21, 2007, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

So you are basically saying that Anet should decrease the HM difficulty

No, I'm saying Anet should make these missions completable with henchmen.

Stop being pigheaded and reading between the lines. I am being as obvious as I possibly can for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzer

Masters is very doable in easy mode. Not sure about hard, I'll have to give it a try.

For the second part, send 5 or 6 henchmen to one of the gates and send a MM and the juggernauts to defend the other. It's much easier if you're a monk; otherwise you might have to manually heal the singers a bit.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I tackled it in easy mode. Problem in hard mode comes when there's no time to adjust juggernauts, and then the heroes and henchmen sit in AOE from overpowered eles because they're flagged in place. And, unfortunately, the default henchmen don't carry BHA. :P

Also, you have to have someone kill turtles. It's much easier if it's the player that does it. I know a warrior can solo them, but I doubt a monk can be an effective healer and an effective turtle killer.

Aera Lure · May 21, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mylon

My problem with hard mode is there's so many skills out there to abuse it and not enough hero slots to use those.

I dont see a reason why Anet wouldnt simply allow us to use all Heroes in hard mode. No change to the interface needed since it could be that we can individually flag only Heroes in slots 1-3, using All for the others as we already do for henchmen. Would simply allow for more management and team building if one is going all Hero/hench, though yes, it goes without saying, that would be an upgrade (a buff?! never happen) since that team would be stronger than Hero/henchies - just not as strong of course as an all-human team. I think that would be fun, honestly.

Failing that, though, the best alternative is to join an active PvE guild, just as glountz said, specifically one that is regularly playing hard mode for the titles if you aim for them. Thinking about it myself since mine is largely inactive now and I dont really wish to Hero/hench my way through all of Hard Mode, even though many areas are possibly done that way. I'm just wandering around PUG land for now and doing other things until I decide if I wish to move - and where.

Theus · May 21, 2007, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

So you are basically saying that Anet should decrease the HM difficulty because you don't have the will, the time, or the patience to find a guild which have the same goals than you?
Are you implying that Anet should rework their system just because you're lazy?
That Anet should adapt to you instead of you adapting to Anet's game?
Sorry I can't follow you here.
HM is largely doable. Additionally, it forces you to think your builds. In PVE!
HM is fine.

Really?

Do Aurora Glade on Hardmode,by yourself with only Prophecies Henchmen.I mean,HM is fine,so it should be doable,right?

I'll wait here for the inevitable outcome.K?K.

Mylon · May 21, 2007, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

I dont see a reason why Anet wouldnt simply allow us to use all Heroes in hard mode. No change to the interface needed since it could be that we can individually flag only Heroes in slots 1-3, using All for the others as we already do for henchmen. Would simply allow for more management and team building if one is going all Hero/hench, though yes, it goes without saying, that would be an upgrade (a buff?! never happen) since that team would be stronger than Hero/henchies - just not as strong of course as an all-human team. I think that would be fun, honestly.

Failing that, though, the best alternative is to join an active PvE guild, just as glountz said, specifically one that is regularly playing hard mode for the titles if you aim for them. Thinking about it myself since mine is largely inactive now and I dont really wish to Hero/hench my way through all of Hard Mode, even though many areas are possibly done that way. I'm just wandering around PUG land for now and doing other things until I decide if I wish to move - and where.

Maybe that would make room for title advancement: For every X title, you get +1 hero slots. So maybe the protector titles each add +1, the skill hunter titles add +1, etc. It would make these titles remotely useful instead of KoaBD fodder.

Muspellsheimr · May 21, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

I am enjoying hard mode, but there are some things that realy need to be changed, and personaly, I don't care if they come in 2-3 months, as long as they come, and that's how long it takes.

First, although not directly accociated with hard mode, we NEED a better party search function.

1) Improve monster skillbars - give them a full set of 8 skills, a second profession, and 2 or 3 available skill bars, one of which loads randomly for each monster when you enter the zone. Also, add elite skills to the boss's in "lower level" areas, such as Ascalon - it makes no sense for them to lack these skills, and adding aditional areas to capture skills will not have a meaningful impact on skill hunter titles, after the tome release.

2) Remove or reduce the 50% boost - it does not increase the difficulty, it makes certain areas more annoying, and the rest far easier if you have a spiteful necromancer or something similar in the party.

3) Scale the vanquishing title, similar to how cartographer is scaled, so you do not have to complete an entire continant before you can show your progress. Further, increase the monetary rewards for vanquishing areas, and remove the experiance rewards.

4) Increase the drop rates of tomes and passage scrolls, and bar non-elite tomes from dropping from chests. Further, add these items to the scroll traders, to help with the availability and price moderation.

If these changes are made, I think it would significantly improve the quality of hard mode, and increase the number of people playing in it. Combined with a superior party search system, people such as me won't have to wait for an hour per mission, just looking for a group.

Spazzer · May 21, 2007, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

Really?

Do Aurora Glade on Hardmode,by yourself with only Prophecies Henchmen.I mean,HM is fine,so it should be doable,right?

I'll wait here for the inevitable outcome.K?K.

Once in a blue moon it is possible with dunham, but you have to gamble on him using Crippling Anguish on the right guy.

Also, you have to figure out how to get a permanent run buff on yourself that will stack with Birthday Cupcake. Pious Haste is nightfall only. Storm Djinn's Haste is nightfall only.

But I'm sure there has to be SOMETHING you can use even if you are a necro or monk.

[edit]

Also, why does Brutus use Icy Veins when he only has SIX SOUL REAPING?

I'm glad glountz did bring up the point about rare skins, however. Maybe some "neat looking pve candy" should be added to missions like Eternal Grove and Aurora Glade and others that henchmen cannot handle to lure people who would like to repeat those dumb things over and over again (read: domain of anguish). Then you wouldn't have to do something simple like giving henchmen reasonable attributes or fixing their AI so they can function independently on a split. Why put all the "rare skins" in nahpui quarter, a map that does not require splitting and is thus easilly henched?

Kotetsu Rain · May 21, 2007, 08:42 PM // 20:42

You know what I say:

Give us the power to use a full hero team in Hard Mode.

tinnic · May 22, 2007, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

I need income. Without that and the ability to improve things I am just playing and nothing else, which is only good for a little while before I dont wish to do it anymore - again. Rate of return vs time played has fallen to all-time lows to the point where its near tedious to play. Fun, yes, dont get me wrong. At least for a little while. I play to explore the new chapter and get some new skills, but its just not like it used to be.

I guess I just do not have the same need for gold that most people here seem to. So whether I get good income from hard mode or not is irrelevant to me. But I can see how people who want multiple 15k armours and every green worth having would have issues with Hard Mode drop rate.

Edit: I would just like to add that from person experience two player with heros is sufficent for hard mode. Now I admit that I am lucky and I usually team with my brother for Hard Mode and between us we can usually figure something out. However, I cannot see why people can't use these very forums to search for duo partners. I mean wouldn't it be more productive to make a thread where people interested in doing hard mode can put down their names, times they play and what characters they want to do hard mode with then well... what you guys are doing here?

Nexus Icon · May 22, 2007, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Muspellsheimr, I agree with all of your points except this one:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muspellsheimr

3)...and remove the experiance rewards.

The XP bonus is very useful if you plan on vanquishing multiple areas in one go. It can help clear some DP before moving on to the next area.

Cookie Cookie Cookie · May 22, 2007, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mylon

Maybe that would make room for title advancement: For every X title, you get +1 hero slots. So maybe the protector titles each add +1, the skill hunter titles add +1, etc. It would make these titles remotely useful instead of KoaBD fodder.

I like this idea, however I'm sure there will be people that will complain that it discriminates people who don't like to get bonuses/masters etc. Then we go back to square one

Patrick Smit · May 22, 2007, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

So you are basically saying that Anet should decrease the HM difficulty because you don't have the will, the time, or the patience to find a guild which have the same goals than you?
Are you implying that Anet should rework their system just because you're lazy?
That Anet should adapt to you instead of you adapting to Anet's game?
Sorry I can't follow you here.
HM is largely doable. Additionally, it forces you to think your builds. In PVE!
HM is fine.

Still this is just an opinion or a judgement, nothing absolute about that. In my opinion HM is doable, especially with 2 or more players that cooperate well. However the statement that HM is fine I disagree with strongly. The 2 to 3 hit spike and die mechanism is largely excisting due the boosted attributes, and has nothing to do with difficulty through better AI (tactically, in terms of mob composition, and skill wise) but more with more destructive powers. They force u to use certain game mechanics (frost/ToF, rits etc) that are largely inflexible and actually lack versatility, mobility etc.. If they were really superior builds they would have been used in PvP as well, and they aren't.

glountz · May 22, 2007, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

Really?

Do Aurora Glade on Hardmode,by yourself with only Prophecies Henchmen.I mean,HM is fine,so it should be doable,right?

I'll wait here for the inevitable outcome.K?K.

Actually if you had read the whole thread before clicking on "reply" you would less look like a troll and more like someone that made a point.
To do Aurora Glade in HM you need :
You.
Three heroes.
Another buddy.
Another three heroes.
If you are so antisocial you can't find ONE buddy to do the mission, sorry, you can't be helped.
Read my posts. I never said that HM could be easily done with henchmen. And, IMO, that's better.

glountz · May 22, 2007, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

Still this is just an opinion or a judgement, nothing absolute about that. In my opinion HM is doable, especially with 2 or more players that cooperate well. However the statement that HM is fine I disagree with strongly. The 2 to 3 hit spike and die mechanism is largely excisting due the boosted attributes, and has nothing to do with difficulty through better AI (tactically, in terms of mob composition, and skill wise) but more with more destructive powers. They force u to use certain game mechanics (frost/ToF, rits etc) that are largely inflexible and actually lack versatility, mobility etc.. If they were really superior builds they would have been used in PvP as well, and they aren't.

Interesting post. However, no build composition is unbreakable, and no AI can match the human intellect.
If you know what you'll be facing, you will win.
The answer of many people here is "prot spirit prot spirit everywhere". Actually that's a little true, and monk/rit uber defense is less effective than heavy shutdown.
Considering than most mobs lack either condition removal or hex removal, You can shutdwon ennemies with a lot more success than to stockpile enchants or protective spirits on a tank. That works, until the aggro break and mobs wipe the party.
Spreading dazed or blind is the best way to the success, and the work of your monks will be easier.
Saying that HM limit builds is bullshit. In fact, it forced my guildies and I to think new builds. Elementalists are no longer fire SF/Meteor shower spammers. That simply doesn't work in HM. They went Earth, or Air for mass blinding and armor penetration. Rangers shifted from barrage to Broad head arrow. Minion masters brought Dark bond to survive and avoid Minions rebellion upopn death.
And necros were forced to change their builds, too. MM is not advised in many areas, it is even counterproductive in some (Jungle scarabs anyone?).
Tanks are no more tank in HM. The aggro breaks extremely fast and dangerously (because of the 50% speed boost). To keep it, many solutions are possible, Deep Freeze + mass crippling dervish is one (see, you are actually bringing MOVEMENT CONTROL in HM! You'll never see that in normal mode).
So, yeah, sorry, when I play in normal, that's the good ol'MM, SF ele, Barrage ranger and so on. No more variety is asked.
In HM, you finally understand that the Holy Triad Ele-monk-warr + MM doesn't work. And you start to look for... Mesmers....

Mylon · May 22, 2007, 09:05 AM // 09:05

You talk about mass shutdown and such, but unfortunately this isn't very feasable with AI. Most henches do not carry interrupts, much less any other kind of shutdown, and even the entire team tries to shut down only one target at a time rather than focusing on what they should be good at (blinding ele for melee, mesmer for casters, spreading conditions/general interrupts for ranger, etc...)

Theus · May 22, 2007, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

Actually if you had read the whole thread before clicking on "reply" you would less look like a troll and more like someone that made a point.
To do Aurora Glade in HM you need :
You.
Three heroes.
Another buddy.
Another three heroes.
If you are so antisocial you can't find ONE buddy to do the mission, sorry, you can't be helped.
Read my posts. I never said that HM could be easily done with henchmen. And, IMO, that's better.

Right.And would you like to explain as to where players are to obtain heroes if they only own Prophecies?

And Lol on the Anti social bit.I'm anti-social because no one plays Hardmode,if rarely ever.

Right.